It was late Wednesday evening and I was at home on my couch conversing of politics on Twitter when I probably should have been in bed. This was my first problem. The second, was that I started tweeting about government and my views on the original intents of the Founding Fathers. This is not bad per se, but I was tired and using a medium that does not lend itself to context or lengthy explanation. Hence the reason for this blog post.
At 11:04 PM on the 5th of November, I made the following statement:
I voted for prop 8 because I believed in it, but I am afraid it the way it happened might set a bad precident [sic] in the future.
Well, I better back-up and explain. First, I voted for California Proposition 8 because I believed in it and it was definitely the right thing to do. Any sane interpretation of the Bible teaches us that gay marriage is against God's design for the family. Even if I weren't a Christian, I would be opposed to the notion that homosexuality might be taught in schools. Furthermore, I believe Jesus Christ could return any moment and if that were today, I'd want to know that I did what I could to fight back the coming night in my lifetime.
Let me emphasize that would not have voted "no" on prop 8 under any circumstance.
The potential bad side to Prop 8 is the precedent it might set.
The Founding Fathers setup our nation on a system of checks and balances. The legislative branch writes the laws, the executive enforces them, and the judicial interprets them light of the constitution. Basic stuff. The point is a simple democracy, where the majority prevails, isn't any better than a dictator. This quote is attributed to one of our early countrymen:
Why should I trade one tyrant three thousand miles a way for three thousand tyrants one mile away?
From Thomas Jefferson:
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
Was it wrong for the majority to take away the so-called rights of homosexuals to marry? I don't think so, we ought to do what we can to "obey God rather then men." (Also, it wasn't right for a minority to push their agenda on the majority.)
Yet, fast-forward with me to a day when the majority is not in our favor, and the "morality" of the day is tolerance of those things contrary to the Bible, and to restrict or punish those who would say otherwise. (Maybe that's not such a fast-forward) In the system the Founders set up, our rights would be protected by the constitution no matter what laws were ratified by legislators. Yet, now we've proven constitutions can be amended with enough people-power.
I'm no lawyer, and I have been wrong before (It's happened once or twice) so I'm not dogmatic about this whole thing, but what do you think? Have we set a precedent by exercising our democratic power?
Comments
the gay agenda
Hi there. I stumbled across your post via twitter, and thought I'd take a minute to reply to a few things.
First off (so you know where I'm coming from), I'm gay and legally married thanks to the window of opportunity between the Supreme Court decision and the passage of Prop 8.
I am not going to try to convince you that I'm just as normal as you because I know that's a dead end. I will also refrain from pointing out the obvious biblical passages that fundamentalists choose to ignore because they acknowledge that they make no sense in today's society. Instead, I'll try to point out a couple of flaws in your argument.
Even if I weren't a Christian, I would be opposed to the notion that homosexuality might be taught in schools.
Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education. And no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it.
California’s top educators including Superintendent of Schools Jack O’Connell and California Teachers all agree: Prop 8 has nothing to do with education and the idea that "homosexuality might be taught in schools" is ridiculous.
Also, it wasn't right for a minority to push their agenda on the majority.
I don't quite understand what agenda you mean. The proponents of Prop 8 were the one with the agenda. We simply wanted people to vote no -- to say no to a bill that would use state law to single out one group of Californians to be treated differently. No matter what your faith, equality under the law is a fundamental constitutional guarantee.
Would you have supported a bill that erased the right to marry for atheists? For Muslims? For African-Americans? After all, it was just a short 40 years ago that it was illegal for whites and blacks to marry -- the common thought was that interracial relationships were deviant, unnatural and disgusting.
Again, I realize that you and I fundamentally disagree. But I simply ask you to think about what has happened:
Just over half of Californians who went to the polls on Tuesday (which represent less than half of all Californians) were able to amend the Constitution and strip away rights from a tiny minority. It doesn't matter if homosexuality is a "choice;" the CA Supreme Court has designated us a suspect class (groups which meet a series of criteria suggesting they are likely the subject of discrimination) just like the federal Supreme Court recognizes race, national origin, religion, and alienage. Prop 8 is discriminatory at its very core, and I hope that you can take a step back and recognize that.
Thanks for your comment
First, I'm genuinely interested in which verses you are referring to that "fundamentalists" ignore. I've studied the Bible for a many years now, and though I don't claim to know everything about it, I do have a four-year college degree on the subject, and I'm not clear what those passages might be. If you are speaking of certain Old Testament practices, there are clear reasons, having to do with the work of Jesus Christ, that make them no longer necessary. With someone who holds to the fundamentals of Christianity, it's never a matter of ignoring something for convenience.
Second, a literal interpretation of the scripture teaches that the act of homosexuality is sin and that relationship is against God's design. It is never taught that to be a woman, or to be of African descent is a sin, so I take issue with putting homosexuality on the same plain. Also, it's not a matter of people getting married who disagree with Christianity (Atheists, Muslims) it's a matter of God's institution of the family, which has one man and one woman at it's core. A Bible-believing Christian would be opposed to polygamy as well as same-sex marriage.
Third, children in Massachusetts were read stories of same-sex marriages in schools, and parents were not allowed to ask the teacher to stop it. Even though the proposition didn't have specific language related to education, recognizing same-sex marriage would open the door for it.
I'm pretty sure...
... the founding fathers would have voted NO here.
I'm not trying to knock your faith, which I in fact share. However, the first amendment to the US constitution is very clear in regards to religion. You simply can't say you support the constitution AND use a religious-based argument in this way. You certainly can choose to vote a certain way based on your own moral compass, I will not begrudge you that, but don't imply that the rights and laws laid down by our founding fathers support that.
Now, having said that, our founding fathers and early leaders got it all wrong. Our government shouldn't even be in the business of making policies related to marriage, except maybe at the most civic level and then those policies should relate to EVERYONE. If the word "marriage" is reserved for a union of a man and woman under god, fine, let THE CHURCH deal with that, not our governing bodies.
How people can't see all of this is beyond me. The First Amendment is hardly confusing and it saddens me to see so many people use our own constitution and the work of our founding fathers in such a misguided way.
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"Equality Under the Law" argument is bogus
Proponents of gay marriage use the "Equality under the law" argument to support their cause, which is completely ridiculous. The fourteenth amendment of the U.S. constitution calls for "Equal protection of the laws." California State constitution also has a similar clause. This means that laws should be applied equally to all individuals. Those who support same-sex marriage say that since straight people can marry whoever they choose, they should be able to marry whoever they want, and since they cannot it is a violation of their equal protection rights.
This is just not the case, straight individuals cannot marry whomever they want. A straight man cannot marry his cousin, sister, a 12 year old, or another man, and this law is applied equally whether you are gay or straight. States have always had limitations on marriage.
Secondly they argue that gay couples should have the same right as straight couples. The problem with this argument is that is a long-held standard that "couples" do not have rights. "individuals" do (see Eisenstadt v. Baird 1972).
As to majority compelling their will on the minority. This is really the foundation of our representative-democracy way of governing. The constitution (state or federal) protects those fundamental rights contained in the documents themselves.
"right" versus "privilege"
"The essence of the right to marry is freedom to join in marriage with the person of one's choice."
Quote from Perez v. Sharp, the 1948 CA Supreme Court decision that legalized interracial marriage in California nearly 20 years before the U.S. Supreme Court followed suit. California was the first state in the union to allow interracial unions.
This quote is important because it is not only precedent-setting regarding marriage, but because the judge specifically calls marriage a "right." I have previously been willing to concede that perhaps since marriage is a contract with the state, perhaps we could simply call that a "privilege," or even a "status" -- but why wouldn't equal protection apply to those, too? However, it is a right, and a protected one at that.
Your 1st argument, that "straight individuals cannot marry whomever they want," is not related because voting No on Prop 8 would not have changed any existing marriage-related laws. Choosing to marry another consenting adult is not equal to marrying your cousin, sister, or a minor.
I don't really care about your 2nd argument because to me the issue is not about granting rights to couples, but about individuals having freedom of choice.
Regarding your final argument about the "majority compelling their will on the minority," well, I concede that this is one flaw in our concept of representative "democracy." Do you realize that just 15.75% of all Californians were able to amend the Constitution on Tuesday? We're not talking about your usual, run-of-the-mill ballot measure, but about amending the document that governs all other law in our State. Even the Legislature is required to pass amendments by a 2/3 majority. Why is it fair that less than 16% of the population gets to accomplish the same thing?
(15.75% figure equals the roughly 52% of the 64% voter turnout of the 47% of the population who is registered to vote.)
I realize that my last point is less about Prop 8 and more about what I would call a fairly stupid procedural rule in California. But it speaks to fairness...
-----
Also, I'm the author of the original "gay agenda" comment above. For some reason when I commented yesterday I was only given form fields for Subject and Comment.
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